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| Pleiades Commentary on Marmara (Pl. no. 540935) |
Sunday, December 11, 2022
How to create a gazetteer - what I've learned
Thursday, November 10, 2022
The Commentary on Pleiades
The Mycenaean Atlas Project is more than just a Bronze Age gazetteer. It is an accessible viewer for the entire ancient world - and at every period. It accomplishes this goal by integrating several very different data sets. Here's an example:
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The city of Aigion in Achaea as displayed in the Digital Atlas |
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Design of old and new interaction with Pleiades. |
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The new Commentary on Pleiades page (here for Belminatis, Pleiades 570152). |
Now I'd like to show a situation in which this commentary is invaluable.
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| Pleiades grouping 18 sites at the very same location: 37.25 N, 22.25 E. |
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Placement of Mount Boreion (Attica) in Pleiades, Topostext, and Mycenaean Atlas Project. |
Tuesday, November 8, 2022
Pleiades' pages and how to fix them
How Pleiades pages look:
How Pleiades pages should look:
In the revised version we've done away with the annoying zoom-in-from-outer-space and settled on a nice large map. Context which is lost by being zoomed-in is restored with the new spotter map which you see on the upper right. The spotter map is zoomed out (level 4,5?) so that you can tell at a glance where you are in the world.
All the ridiculous back-scratching, log-rolling, and mutual thank-yous are moved off to one of the tabs on the top. Users can click on that tab if they want to see whose bright idea this site was but - spoiler alert - they won't. I left the bibliography off of this new map but there is room for one or a button that will pop the bibliography up on a new window. New windows for subsidiary purposes are easy to write and not enough advantage is taken of this idea.
And, in fact, now that I look at it, we should lose the right-hand side margin which is crapped up with stuff that could easily be buttons. How about this:
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| The new and improved, user-forward, Pleiades page! |
Lean and mean. No wasted space. User's needs are foremost. The search field has been moved to where it belongs and is enlarged so as to be actually visible. Do you see the new Credits button? No? Good.
Instead we have something actually useful which is a new bibliography button. When you click on it you get a simple bibliography page (not shown). Now if Pleiades would just fix all the broken bibliography links and then link to something actually useful instead of a Zotero page.
Next, On to Peripleo! If it ever works.
Wednesday, June 29, 2022
Digital Antiquities Databases; Their Visualization and The Mycenaean Atlas Project Digital Atlas
Several of the common digital antiquities databases have very poor or non-existent visualization tools. Their focus is showing you individual sites on a map and with precious little other support. The least satisfactory in this regard is Arthur deGraauw's Harbors project. Dr. deGraauw is an outstanding expert in the field of harbor research; he freely and generously makes his data available to everyone. This data is, however, in the form of a spreadsheet (computer types refer to this as a 'flat file') and no map visualization is possible on his site. The remainder among these various DBs provide a dedicated page for each site along with minimal, mostly useless information about it, but without any larger visualization. The best user interface among these databases is Vici which provides a visualization map for each site and shows you the context. I do notice, though, that when I use Vici that there is often no site description or indication of the site's significance. Here's an example: this shows Neftina on Lemnos which appears to be a quarry although we are not told this:
Vici is actually pretty good and contains nearly everything you want in map visualization. Vici also provides context in the form of other near-by sites. The zoom-level is user controlled and jumping to another site does not require you to go back into outer space before zooming in again.
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| Pleiades: Searching for Kydonia. Phase 1: Outer Space! |
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| Part of Lemnos in the Mycenaean Atlas Project Digital Atlas Features (red F paddles), M.A.P. sites (Bronze Age) in blue and Trismegistos sites are displayed |
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| The Lemnos map (detail) Layer Menu visible along with 'spotter' map |
- Supports visualization for the following DBs: DARE, deGraauw's Harbors Project, Mycenaean Atlas Project (with features), Pleiades, Topostext, Trismegistos, VICI
- Displays these databases in a frame that is 0.18° 'square'.
- Differential selection among the seven data sets
- Persistent zoom level (user-controlled zoom) (The user is never catapulted into outer space against his/her will)
- User-controlled redraw of the frame by clicking anywhere on the map
- Links from each DB icon to the relevant details page (Pleiades, Topostext etc., even deGraauw's Harbors).
- User-selectable map sheet backgrounds
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| Sample detail page for Arthur deGraauw's Harbor data. This is Neftina on Lemnos |
Monday, March 28, 2022
Do Not Use the Pleiades Data Set
The river Quartaccio is a brook (described as 'fossa') just near Marina di San Nicola on the Lazio coast of Italy. This brook diverges from the Statua (another brook) at 41.9298 N, 12.135 E and flows N towards the town of Quartaccio and Valcanneto. Along this brook at about 41.9356 N, 12.1381 E a modern road crosses it. This is approximately the position of a Roman bridge which is given no name. This bridge is marked at this place in the Barrington Atlas (Map 43, A2, no. 2). Here's what it looks like in Google Earth:
All in all it took me about half an hour to trace down the right Quartaccio (there are several) and take a stab at the position of the bridge based on the Barrington Atlas.
In Pleiades this bridge is no. 426578 and its position is given by Pleiades as 41.875 N, 12.125 E which is in the Tyrrhenian some 3.69 km. from the nearest land and 6.83 km from the putative bridge. See it at the bottom of the next photo:
Now these gross errors of placement in the Pleiades data are nothing new. I looked at five examples last time and I attributed them to careless digitization and the complete lack of any quality control. I did notice that Pleiades puts their accuracy estimate for the Quartaccio Bridge as 'Rough'. I thought, 'Aha!', if I can see what 'Rough' means to the Pleiades group then maybe I can see how far the problem goes. I got the 'Rough' points out of the database that I made from Pleiades' data and plotted that on Google Earth. There are about 5000 points labelled 'Rough' in the Pleiades DB. I used a select to retrieve the first 3000 of these (about 1/10 of the entire Pleiades DB). Here's the result of plotting these 3000:
This is shocking.
Even if the location of these sites was not known (most of them are known as I will show) Pleiades has made no effort to place them even approximately. These points are simply dumped off at the nearest half-degree or quarter-degree vertex. Nothing else could make such a pattern.
And most of these points are not singles. They are multiples of 5 to 10 distinct locations which are simply dumped on top of each other. All these sites have simply been rounded to the nearest degree or half-degree. And most of these points are easily locatable. When I was criticizing P. for errors I truly believed that the number was, perhaps, about 100 points. Now I see that it is thousands of points that could be known but which are simply dumped off at the nearest vertex.
Greece looks like this:
I've said that many of these points are just carelessly dumped in a pile even though the locations they denote are easily locatable. Here's an example. In the Corinthian Gulf Pleiades has overlain six points at 38.25 N, 22.25 E.
I've drawn red lines from the vertex where they were dumped to their real locations. The line drawn to Phocis is drawn to the nearest point of land in Phocis. The lines from the rivers are drawn from the mouths of the respective rivers. The Styx is the modern Mavronero above Solos. The village of Solos is marked. Every point was easily locatable and the average error is 13.9 km.
I can think of no toponymical practice that can explain this pattern. What's absolutely clear is that the Pleiades data set has no conceivable use for any scholarly purpose.
The Pleiades data set is approaching twenty years of existence. In that time the P. team had plenty of time to fix these gross errors. I concluded long ago that Pleiades never had any interest in creating a scholarly (or even a reliable) map of the ancient world. Soon I will dedicate one of these posts to discussing what I think their real interest is.
The Pleiades data is unsuitable as a reference.
It is unsuitable for study of the Ancient World.
It is unusable as a basis for developing further geographic tools.
Pleiades owes the scholarly community an explanation of why their data so bad and what they intend to do to rectify this very poor database.
Sunday, March 11, 2018
Correspondent Comments on the Suitability of Pleiades Data for Scholars
A friend of mine replied to my post on the inaccuracy and unsuitability of Pleiades data for scholarly work. (http://mycenaeanatlasproject.blogspot.com/2018/02/pleiades-data-does-crowd-sourcing-for.html)
I reproduce his letter here:
"Pleiades isn't structured to provide a single, accurate set of coordinates, though I think it hopes to evolve in that direction. Its most useful role currently is as a set of identifiers that allow links to superior gazetteers. For example, the huge error for ancient Messene is the result of displaying a calculated representative point that includes one spurious DARMC location (from the modern village of Messene), in addition to a mildly inaccurate DARMC location plus a very accurate DARE location. (DARE has assimilated a bunch of Google Earth-validated ToposText points for Greece, and from other sources as well, but uses Pleiades IDs as an easy pivot to other resources). Some of the tools Pleiades funding has produced for the purpose of improving its data are not being used very much -- one problem being a technological gap between laborious on-the-ground collectors ... and people who automate things."
Now I look at it piece by piece (original letter in red, my replies in black)
"Pleiades isn't structured to provide a single, accurate set of coordinates,"
So then where do we go from here?
" ..., though I think it hopes to evolve in that direction."
Spoiler alert: they're not going to. This would involve an enormous amount of work - actual scholarship. They're not going to commit to this because they think that this can be done on the cheap - through copying other data sets or through crowd sourcing. That's not the way that any of this works. My experience with them is that they will correct an error if you bring it forcefully to their attention but not otherwise.
"For example, the huge error for ancient Messene is the result of displaying a calculated representative point that includes one spurious DARMC location (from the modern village of Messene), in addition to a mildly inaccurate DARMC location plus a very accurate DARE location. (DARE has assimilated a bunch of Google Earth-validated ToposText points for Greece, and from other sources as well, but uses Pleiades IDs as an easy pivot to other resources). "
You've explained Messene but what about all the other errors? Nor have you questioned my estimate that approx. 1/3 of Pleiades has serious errors. What you're describing sounds like a real incestuous tangle. I don't even want to get into unpacking this beyond saying that topographical accuracy does not come from copying other data sets. It's like the old saw about buying a used car: you're just buying someone else's problems.
" Some of the tools Pleiades funding has produced for the purpose of improving its data are not being used very much -- one problem being a technological gap between laborious on-the-ground collectors (like me) and people who automate things. "
Sounds like you're describing Recogito. Is that what you mean? Are there other tools that they support? I tried out their conversion tool Geocollider. It failed miserably.
Everything about Pleiades/Pelagios/Peripleo is sham. The Barrington Atlas data was useful for its printed purpose but now they're trying to roll that data over into the digital world where its approximative nature makes it unfit for use. And they've wrapped the whole thing up with bad and outmoded ideas - not from scholarly practice, from anthropology or toponymy or history or classical studies or any other relevant discipline - but from computer science. None of what they're doing (crowd sourcing and linked data) has anything to do with any scholarly practice or purpose but this is what they're selling and they're getting pots of money for it. In the end actual scholars wind up exactly where they started - having to do the topography of the Mediterranean from scratch. I actually know a fellow (from a very prestigious school) who's preparing a study of Mediterranean habitations. I was shown one of his spreadsheets and it was stuffed with errors since he had relied on Pleiades. In fact that's where my blog post came from.
I've asked myself what their game is. I suspect that what they want is to license their data (or perhaps their follow-on project Pelagios/Peripleo) to schools for so much per seat and deny access to non-customers. That's a time-honored approach in Computer Science. First get a lot of contributors to fork over their work for nothing under the name of something noble-sounding like 'Open Data' or the 'Semantic Web'. Second, license the whole to third parties and keep all the money.
Although I'm not sure that they can really carry this out successfully because it's the Underpants Gnomes business model.
Bibliography
DARE: The Digital Atlas of the Roman Empire. https://dare.ht.lu.se/
DARMC: The Digital Atlas of Roman and Medieval Civilizations. https://darmc.harvard.edu/
Geocollider: https://pleiades.stoa.org/news/blog/introducing-geocollider
Recogito: https://recogito.pelagios.org/
Underpants Gnomes: https://vimeo.com/79954057
Sunday, February 25, 2018
Pleiades Data - Does Crowd Sourcing for Toponymy Actually Work?
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| From my error worksheet. Y-dimension is error in m. |
Crowd-sourcing in toponymy studies does not appear to work.
Friday, February 9, 2018
Fact Computing
Since they contribute nothing to scholarship itself, what is it that Pelagios Commons is really trying to accomplish? They are trying to demonstrate that Classical Studies, in all its forms, is suitable for, and can be represented by, something called 'Open Linked Data'.
[1] It's pointless to footnote Wikipedia but the above quote was taken from the article 'Linked Data' on February 9, 2018.
Blog Posts Concerning the Isthmian Wall
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I learned from the Aegeanet bulletin board that the Arachne CMS databases are online. This includes a very large engraved seals data...























