Where is Arcadian Dhimitra: Troupes (C484)?

It is said that photographs don't lie but they certainly can mumble.

An example occurs in Syriopoulos' article on 'Windy Enispe'[1] that discusses the important Bronze Age site called 'Dhimitra'.   Syriopoulos tells us about the site and how it was discovered:

“IN 1939, during road construction near the modern village Dimitra in the district of Gortynia in north-western Arcadia, digging works brought to light considerable prehistoric remains from the eastern slope of a small hill called Troupes (= 'holes') about 2 km. north-east of the village of Dimitra.'

 The remains passed unnoticed until 1942, when I chanced to visit the site and collected from the cutting of the hill-slope a considerable number of prehistoric sherds, the most remarkable of which I have briefly mentioned under 'Demetra village' in my (Prehistory of the Peloponnese).  R. Howell quotes the site in his recently published 'Survey of Eastern Arcadia in Prehistory' without adding any more information.

 Unfortunately, I did not manage to publish these finds earlier with a more detailed description and the relevant illustrations. But I have visited the site several times since I942 and collected more sherds and other finds, the most remarkable of which are described below. They all prove, in my opinion, a continuous and intensive inhabitation of the site from Neolithic to L.H. IIIC 2 times, when the settlement was deserted for ever.”

I transliterated his title in parentheses and have suppressed his footnotes except for fn. 1 which I reproduce here:

“1. The area of Dimitra, formerly Divritsa, is described in Frazer, Pausanias iv. 287-90, PW 70-5, GL iii. 276. The road, during whose construction the prehistoric finds came to light, branches off the main carriage road from Tripolis to Olympia at its 83rd kilometre in the village of Stavrodromi and leads through the villages of Tropaia, Vachlia, Dimitra, Kontovazaina, Voutsi, and Monastiraki, towards Koumani village and the carriage road from Pyrgos to Patras via Platanos. It has not yet been completed.”

So.  A significant large settlement that existed throughout the Bronze Age in central Arcadia and situated about 1 km. north of the Ladon River.

Where is it?

The name of the site is 'Troupes' and 'Dhimitra' is the name of the modern town closest to it.  The general position of Dhimitra in Arcadia is shown in this map:

Here we're looking at the NW quadrant of the Peloponnese; the lavender arrow points to Dhimitra.   If we zoom in on this area we can see the road being described by Syriopoulos in his footnote 1 which are indicated more or less roughly in the next map.  (Click on it to enlarge.)

On this map I have labelled the names of the towns in Syriopoulos' footnote.  The sequence begins with Stavrodromi at the lower R and ends with Koumani at the upper L.  The last bit of the road from outside Monastiraki to Koumani is not very good; really a series of dirt roads and this may be the part that Syriopoulos thought was 'not yet ... completed.'.

Now for Dhimitra itself.

The modern town of Dhimitra is positioned at the lower L.  Measuring a path from that town to my proposed location for Troupes is just about 1890 m.  I admit that the starting point for this lavender line was somewhat arbitrarily chosen but Syriopoulos does not tells us where to begin measuring the 2 km. distance from town to site.

In this post I have started with the answer.  With a high degree of confidence it can be said that the site of Troupes is at 37.786502° N, 21.932709° E.  How can this be justified?  

The criteria for this site are as follows:

1. Ca. 2 km. from modern Dhimitra.

2. It is on the road between Stavrodromi and Koumani.

3. It must be on or very close to the side of the road because it was discovered during road-building.

In addition to these vague criteria there are two photographs that show the area around Troupes.  These are from Syriopoulos' article.

The first shows the Ladon river valley taken from ... somewhere.

Here I have labelled the gorge of the Ladon R. (tributary of the Alpheios).  Also I have indicated the facing ridge on the S which is Dariza.  The modern town of Dhimitra cannot really be seen but it's somewhere over the labelled ridge.

In the next picture I reproduce that view in Google Earth:

Being able to reproduce this view leads me to say that the photograph in Syriopoulos was taken from approximately 37.786022° N, 21.947296° E.  In this picture the red line is the road described in Syriopoulos' footnote 1.  The intermittent blue line is the position of the Ladon river itself.

Syriopoulos labels this picture (a) as 'Troupes (or Damari) from north-east.'

But it isn't.  

The photo labels in his article have come adrift.  This caption which says 'Troupes' is actually meant for photograph (c) which is here:

This is the original.  Here is a labelled version of it:

Here we're looking roughly SW down the Ladon river valley in the direction of Dhimitra which we cannot see.  The main highway actually winds around the site of Troupes.  If we could figure out from where this picture was taken we would know where Troupes is located.  Perhaps it's possible to recreate this view in Google Earth?

After a great deal of huffing and puffing I was able to do exactly that.     Here it is:

Not too convincing?  That's what I mean when I say that photographs can stutter.  O.k., let's zoom in on the ridge in the LC:

Now we have a photo almost identical to Syriopoulos' photo which was taken from about 37.790800° N, 21.932980° E. I suspect that Syriopoulos' original was taken with a moderate telephoto, perhaps 135 mm. focal length.

And there it all is.  That wooded plateau feature in the center is Troupes.  In Syriopoulos' original there are many limestone outcrops visible and those have nearly disappeared in the overgrowth some 45 years later.  But when we look at this ridge from above those limestone features are still plainly visible:

I have drawn yellow arrows that indicate extruding features.  Even though this east side of the ridge is greatly overgrown compared to when Syriopoulos' picture was taken its essential rocky nature is unchanged.

Here's another photo of the site from above:

Here's Syriopoulos' photo of it:

And this is as close as I can get in Google Earth Street View:

I think that Syriopoulos's photo was taken by following the branching road to the left (NW) and photographing the hill by facing more towards the NE.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A new database (Rev. 65) and updated search files were moved to helladic.info on 08/23/18 at 06:52 PST.  This includes about 71 new sites, many of them on the islands of Karpathos, Saros, and Kasos in the Dodecanese.  And don't forget to try out the new chronological pages on helladic.info.

If you like these posts then please follow me on Twitter (Squinchpix) or Google Plus (Robert Consoli).  Please do this.

You can e-mail me (and I hope you will) at  bobconsoli   at   gmail dot com

And please remember - Friends don't let friends use Facebook.

Most researchers in this field use some product like Microsoft's Excel to create a 'DB'.  This is fine; it's what is generally referred to as a 'flat file'.  That is, a single table representation of your data of interest.

The Mycenaean Atlas database, on the other hand, is a relational database with several tables that was built using MySQL.  Dumps of this DB are available but you need MySQL (or similar) and a knowledge of Structured Query Language (SQL) to run it.  Otherwise it doesn't make much sense to ask for it.  But If you'd like to have a copy of the Mycenaean Atlas database anyway then e-mail me and tell me about your project.  

And remember that useful .kml and/or .csv files can be generated directly from all the windows (including the new reports pages) of the website helladic.info   Try it out!   I'm also willing to generate custom .csv or .kml files from the atlas if you need something specific.

Footnotes

1. Syriopoulos [1973] 193.  

   In Howell [1970] p. 98, "During the construction of the public highway near the village of Dhimitra, a cutting was made through a prehistoric settlement."  

   In Simpson [1981] 88, 'D 19 Dhimitra: Troupes', "The small hill called Troupes lies about 2 k. northeast of Dhimitra, on the south slopes of Mt. Aphrodision, above the Ladon river valley.  During road construction a cutting was dug through a prehistoric settlement here, and Syriopoulos ... collected a large quantity of sherds from it, mainly from the eastern slope.  Most of this was Middle Helladic coarse ware, but a few sherds were Mycenaean of provincial type  ...   the LH IIIC claimed is not certain ..."   

   In Simpson and Dickinson [1979] 83, 'B 33 Dhimitra: Troupes': "The small hill called Troupes is c. 2 km. NE of Dhimitra, on the S slopes of Mt. Aphrodision.  During road construction a cutting was made through the prehistoric settlement here and many sherds were collected, ...  Most of this was MH coarse ware and provincial LH.  ..."  

   In Parker [2008] 217: "Finally,  near  the  village  of  Dhimitra  (62)  in  the  northwestern region of Arkadia, a substantial settlement dating from the Neolithic to the LBA was discovered when the current road was built (Syriopoulos 1973)."

Bibliography

Howell [1970]:   Howell, R., 'A Survey of Eastern Arcadia in Prehistory',  The Annual of the British School at Athens (65). November, 1970.  79-127.

Parker [2008]:   Parker, Catherine Ruth, Arkadia in Transition: Exploring Late Bronze Age and Early Iron Age Human Landscapes. Ph.D. dissertation submitted to the University of Birmingham. Institute of Archaeology and Antiquity, School of Historical Studies.  The University of Birmingham, January 2008.

Simpson and Dickinson [1979]:   Simpson, Richard Hope and O.T.P.K. Dickinson, A Gazetteer of Aegean Civilization in the Bronze Age,  I: The Mainland and the Islands, Paul Åströms Förlag, Goteborg. 1979.

Simpson [1981]:   Simpson, Richard Hope, Mycenaean Greece. Park Ridge, New Jersey: Noyes Press, 1981.

Syriopoulos [1973]: 'The Homeric 'Windy Enispe': A Prehistoric Settlement in North-Western Arcadia near the River Ladon', The Annual of the British School at Athens (68), pp. 193-205, 1973.

Where is the church of Ayios Konstantinos (Arcadia) C1716?

Making sense of Howell no. 24, (C1716)

In his important survey of Eastern Arcadia Howell says this about the church of Ayios Konstandinos at Stadio in Arcadia:

“24. Stadhion (Akhourion) – Ayios Konstandinos (plate 38c).

The church of Ayios Konstandinos stands on a low mound at the northern edge of the village of Stadhion.  It lies about 200 m. from the crossroads at the centre of the village, to the right of a road leading north towards Ayios Sostis.  Early Helladic … and Middle Helladic sherds … occurred in abundance over an area about 100 m. in diameter around the church.  Five obsidian fragments were also found …”[1]

And there’s more to this site than just some sherds.  The BCH, number 2423 announces, in 2007, the discovery of a habitation there.  They say this:

“Tegea, Stadium.  Hill of Agios Konstantinos.  The ΛΘ’ ΕΠΚΑ reports the discovery of a settlement (fig. 1) occupied principally in the Early and Middle Helladic periods but continuing into Late Helladic. A rectangular building with two rooms (one over 25m2) has so far been partially excavated. The pottery recovered includes an undecorated EH bowl and sherds of at least two storage pithoi with rope decoration.”[2]

Going to the link which BCH provides gives us a nice .pdf which goes into more detail about the find:

“Stadio, Agios Konstantinos Hill

Just outside Stadio stands a low hill that has been named after the homonymous newer church on its top. Older surface surveys on the hill resulted in the identification of prehistoric pottery. The excavation research of the Ephorate that began in 2007 on the occasion of the request of the ecclesiastical council for the construction of a multipurpose building, a short distance southeast of the church, brought to light for the first time a prehistoric settlement with continuous habitation from the Early Helladic period to the late Mycenaean (Fig. 2). The main phase of use of the site dates back to the Early Helladic and Middle Helladic period. At present, a partially rectangular building with a DDB-ANA orientation has been excavated, which has a bilateral arrangement and is similar to the most widespread type of residence in the Aegean area since the early Bronze Age. One of the two rooms has an interior space of over 25 m². Among the most characteristic ceramic samples are an intact first-generation flask and fragments of at least two strands with rope-like decoration.”[3]

So.  In Howell’s time when it was merely a sherd scatter it has now become a full-fledged habitation; even an important one.  So where is it?  Ah.  That’s the problem.  Let’s go to the map.

In this first satellite view we see the general area in Arcadia where Stadio is located.   I have marked some other well-known spots such as Nauplio, etc.  Stadio is just a few hundred yards to the east of Tegea.

In this second satellite view I show the area in a close-up.  Stadio is to the lower right center.  The red arrow by ‘Stadio’ points to the crossroads mentioned by Howell.  The large church in the center of Stadio is Ayios Dimitrios.  It is not the church that Howell et al. are talking about.

Leading from Stadio to Ayios Sostis to the north the road passes just to the east of Tegea Archaeological Park.  On the way it passes a church which is on the right.  It’s the identification of that church which is in question.  Here’s another closeup:

Let’s unpack this picture.  The red circle at the lower R is centered at the crossroads of Stadio.  It is 200 m. in radius.  Theoretically the church of Ayios Konstantinos should be on or near the northern edge of that circle.  There is no church in that area.  Our candidate church which we identified in the last picture (and whose name I do not know) is nearly 500 meters from the northern edge of Stadion.  That’s the lavender circle.  It is centered on the possible church and has a radius of 484 m.  I drew several routes starting from the main crossroads in Stadion.  The blue route goes to the edge of the 200 m. circle to the west.  No churches there.  The yellow route shows the main way to Ayios Sostis.  It does go past our candidate church.  The church is on the right of that route which it should be (Howell is thinking of the route as running from Stadio to Ayios Sostis).  But that yellow route is nearly 700 m. long.  The green route just starts at the crossroads and runs almost exactly 200 m. to the 200 m. radius circle edge.  No church at the end of the green route either.  So is the church at the end of the yellow route our sought-after church?  Even though it’s much further away from Stadio than 200 m.?

Regrettably I do not know the answer.

I suspect that at one time (it’s been nearly 50 years since Howell wrote his description) the church of Ayios Konstantinos was located somewhere else.  The Greek people do move and rebuild their churches from time to time so this is not impossible.  There could be a clue in the EPKA announcement where they say: ‘stands a low hill that has been named after the homonymous newer church on its top’.  (‘…τον ομώνυμο νεότερο ναό στην κορυφή του.).  ‘Neotero’.  This is the comparative form and just means ‘younger’ or ‘newer’.   Although I think that the Greek is mushy at this point they appear to be trying to tell us that this church of Ayios Konstantinos is ‘newer’; perhaps has been rebuilt.  Our candidate church does stand on a barely perceptible hill.  It peaks at the cemetery about 3 m. above the level.  If this is correct then EPKA’s announcement does refer to our church (F2689) at 37.462022 N, 22.430321 E.

But if this is Howell's church then that raises additional  difficulties. 

Case 1. It was originally located somewhere nearer Stadio.  That means that the finds of Howell cannot be associated to the EPKA finds even though EPKA clearly says ‘Older surface surveys on the hill resulted in the identification of prehistoric pottery’.

    Case 2. It was never rebuilt and is still in the same place or it was rebuilt in the same place.  If EPKA is telling us that Howell’s finds and the finds announced in 2007 are from the same place then we still have the problem that this putative Ayios Konstantinos does not at all conform to Howell’s directions.

I trust that I’ve muddied the waters sufficiently for today.  

For the purposes of my atlas I’m placing C1716 (Stadhion: Ayios Konstandinos) at this new church.  But the difficulties are obvious.  If anyone knows exactly where the church of Ayios Konstandinos near Stadio is, or was, or what in the heck EPKA is on about then please let me know.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Status of the Mycenaean Atlas Project

Currently prototyping an alpha online version of the Atlas.  I'm probably about a month away from making it available.

I've recently received a large database of Bronze Age and Iron Age sites in continental Greece and the islands.  I estimate that it will add 1200+ more unique sites in addition to additional information about the sites that I already have.

Anyone who would like to have a copy of the MAP database can send an e-mail to bobconsoli 'at' gmail.com or leave a comment on any of my posts.  

A large (about 2400+ page) .pdf document which describes the entire database is available for the asking.

To run the MAP database requires a SQL server running on your desktop computer.   MySQL is such a server and it is powerful, industry-standard, and free.  

I can and will make .kml or .kmz files, which can be opened directly in Google Earth, available to those who would like them.

  

I can also create .csv files for people who would like to import Mycenaean Atlas Project data into Google Earth but would like it in tabular form.

If you like these posts then please follow me on Twitter (Squinchpix) or on Google+   (Robert Consoli)

Facebook?  Sorry.I.just.can't. 

Notes

[1] Howell [1970] p. 91.

[2] http://chronique.efa.gr/index.php/fiches/voir/2423/

[3]  ΕΦΟΡΕΙΑ ΠΡΟΪΣΤΟΡΙΚΩΝ ΚΑΙ ΚΛΑΣΙΚΩΝ ΑΡΧΑΙΟΤΗΤΩΝ, p. 123, ‘Στάδιο, λόφος Αγίου Κωνσταντίνου’.  Google translate with my edits.

Biblio

Howell [1970]:  Howell, R.  "A Survey of Eastern Arcadia in Prehistory"  The Annual of the British School at Athens.  65. November, 1970.  79-127.